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Excellent Special Teams article.

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Excellent Special Teams article.
Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:36 am

Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:52 pm
  • I can sum this issue up in 2 words.

    Roster depth.

    Now that everyone is paid, depth took a big hit, and we are carrying far more rookies and cheaper players than before.

    Better get used to it IMO.
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    Seymour
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Re: Excellent Special Teams articleaccep
Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:08 pm
  • Frankly the kicking game has got worse season to season and the missed extra points and field goals has dropped the ST results sharply. Losing the contribution of Lockett for part of last season didn't help either.

    I'm not buying " it's the depth " as the coverage has been acceptable, perhaps though the many young DBs and LBs added were added for a reason. So maybe there could be something to that observation. Injuries sure didn't help much last year either. To me the coaching for the ST may need to be tweaked.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:58 pm
  • Seymour wrote:I can sum this issue up in 2 words.

    Roster depth.

    Now that everyone is paid, depth took a big hit, and we are carrying far more rookies and cheaper players than before.

    Better get used to it IMO.



    Those players getting paid were rookies and cheap players on special teams before they got paid. The special teams were good then.

    Next excuse.

    I think those paid players had a attitude when they played initially, we were losers when Pete took over and disrespected as a franchise, rah rah coach, players that were doomed to fail etc, something we need to get back as a hungry team instead of a place that now is looked at as a respected place to play because of our recent accomplishments.
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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:13 am
  • Seymour wrote:I can sum this issue up in 2 words.

    Roster depth.

    Now that everyone is paid, depth took a big hit, and we are carrying far more rookies and cheaper players than before.

    Better get used to it IMO.


    It's the type of thing that can fluctuate so I don't know if it's something that people will just have to get used to, but absolutely agreed with your point.

    I think for awhile almost all (?) Hawks fans took it as a point of pride that the Hawks roster had the highest percentage of young UDFAs on the 53 by a pretty wide margin (it was part of the "genius" of JS/PC), but over time it has become apparent that they're just good talent evaluators, rather than the best talent evaluators in history (a string of a few historically amazing drafts, followed by a string of really bad drafts, not counting the past two because we don't know what those will result in yet).

    In any case, with poor drafting and such a heavy reliance on undrafted UDFAs of course your special teams are going to suffer.

    Part of it I think is just the way that JS/PC speculate for talent, as they seem to -- really more than any other team -- try to find value by just taking amazing athletes who fly off the charts in height/weight/speed measures under the belief that they can turn them into football players. When you hit on one of those you found a perennial pro-bowler, but the hit rate on that strategy is really low too. It was, after all, the strategy used by the late-Al Davis Raiders (although the Seahawks won't ever get that bad in this window because unlike those Raiders they already have a pretty large core of All Pros in place).

    So, not to beat a dead horse, but as I've said before, I think once that All Pro core was in place I thought the Seahawks should have shifted strategies and gone for really safe depth picks and average starter picks (read: guys with really, really good fundamentals who don't measure well), but they've continued to the do the opposite.

    Both special teams and depth are going to suffer for that.
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    Popeyejones
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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:26 am
  • I expect the Seahawks to turn the corner, for the better, with excellent special teams competition. Pete and John mentioned special teams much more often than typical during this off season. Personnel additions that can compete for a special team role has been a point of emphasis through out this off season.

    It should be noted that John and Pete have proven success in "going for it" with raw athletes and position projections. I'm thinking fans can look forward to a great competition at the gunner positions. Consider archived descriptions of rookie free agent Ricardo Lockett and late round pick Jeremy Lane.

    Blessed with the speed to win multiple Georgia state high school championships as a sprinter and win the 2009 NCAA Division II 200-meter dash for FVSU, Lockette's nomadic collegiate career has minimized his production on the football field -- but not the interest of NFL scouts.

    His career started at Wallace State, then he transferred to Fort Valley for the 2008 season, where he caught 19 passes for 277 touchdowns and three touchdowns, also returning eight kickoffs for 222 yards and a score. He left for Bethel College in Tennessee to get more NFL exposure, then returned to FVSU while sitting out the 2009-2010 football and track seasons after being suspended for testing for a high testosterone level at the NCAA track meet. Returning to competition in 2010, he only managed 23 catches for 262 yards and one touchdown, while returning 10 kickoffs for 214 yards.

    Despite the issues that have stunted his growth as a player over the past five years, Lockette intrigues teams enough that he earned a spot at the Scouting Combine and showed some promise at the NFLPA All-Star Game. His rare speed, smooth movement and potential as a receiving threat (with NFL coaching) and returner could entice some team to use a mid-to-late-round pick to secure his services. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/1681620
    The definition of a developmental prospect, Lane started just one full season at Northwestern State. But he has an intriguing blend of good size at 6-feet and speed.

    Lane finished 2011 with 41 tackles and two interceptions after starting four games the previous season. But the raw physical tools were always there as Lane struggled through injuries and inconsistency during his first three years.

    A track star in high school, Lane played regularly as a junior but didn't technically earn the fulltime starting job until last season.

    "In the spring I turned it up 20 more notches," he told the Alexandria Town Talk. "I thought this is my senior year, this is my last shot and I've got to make an impression."

    He took advantage of games against LSU and SMU to draw the attention of scouts, and was invited to the Casino Del Sol all-star game in January.

    At his March 20th pro day, Lane ran a blistering 4.48-second 40-yard dash and posted a 42-inch vertical jump.http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/1688065

    Fans can look forward to great competition at the gunner positions. With regards to rookie numbers at the gunner positions, possible candidates include ....... Shaquill Griffin, Delano Hill, Tedric Thompson, Mike Tyson, Amara Darboh and David Moore. Plenty of other candidates added, veterans and rookies alike, for other special team roles. Among those other roles are the long snapper and guard spots on punt and kick lines. I think we are going to see a very active competition as they investigate different combinations.

    It's going to be an exciting story for fans of Special Teams.
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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:48 pm
  • I also think roster depth is a factor in the decline in ST play. However, I think it is related more to talent evaluation/drafts and player development, than it is to players getting paid. In my opinion J&P haven't done a good enough job, recently, to find and develop depth and it has hurt special teams play and the team overall. I think they have conceded as much by each of the last couple years making late trades for 'special team' guys.

    I remember, not long ago, watching preseason games, the backups would come in and dominate the other teams back-ups and when they released those players they would sign immediately to other teams. That has not been the case in the last couple years. In fact last year's back-up/starting safeties were still FA up until last week. (I think Terrell signed with someone) Although it's not the only factor, the decrease in good depth has impacted ST.


    All that said, I am hopeful for this year's depth and looking forward to improved special teams play. ST were outstanding the year they won the SB. I don't know if they can get back to that level, but if they play close to that level this team will be hard to beat.
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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:07 pm
  • LolaRox wrote:I also think roster depth is a factor in the decline in ST play. However, I think it is related more to talent evaluation/drafts and player development, than it is to players getting paid. In my opinion J&P haven't done a good enough job, recently, to find and develop depth and it has hurt special teams play and the team overall. I think they have conceded as much by each of the last couple years making late trades for 'special team' guys.

    I remember, not long ago, watching preseason games, the backups would come in and dominate the other teams back-ups and when they released those players they would sign immediately to other teams. That has not been the case in the last couple years. In fact last year's back-up/starting safeties were still FA up until last week. (I think Terrell signed with someone) Although it's not the only factor, the decrease in good depth has impacted ST.


    All that said, I am hopeful for this year's depth and looking forward to improved special teams play. ST were outstanding the year they won the SB. I don't know if they can get back to that level, but if they play close to that level this team will be hard to beat.

    Special teams is largely made up of backup WRs, LBs, and DBs. We had injuries stacking up last year at WR and DB which forced us to use our depth instead of reserving it for special teams. No team has unlimited depth. Mystery solved.
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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:36 pm
  • We all know that it takes a "complete team" to make it to the SB. Last year, we were hurting....big time!
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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:13 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    LolaRox wrote:I also think roster depth is a factor in the decline in ST play. However, I think it is related more to talent evaluation/drafts and player development, than it is to players getting paid. In my opinion J&P haven't done a good enough job, recently, to find and develop depth and it has hurt special teams play and the team overall. I think they have conceded as much by each of the last couple years making late trades for 'special team' guys.

    I remember, not long ago, watching preseason games, the backups would come in and dominate the other teams back-ups and when they released those players they would sign immediately to other teams. That has not been the case in the last couple years. In fact last year's back-up/starting safeties were still FA up until last week. (I think Terrell signed with someone) Although it's not the only factor, the decrease in good depth has impacted ST.


    All that said, I am hopeful for this year's depth and looking forward to improved special teams play. ST were outstanding the year they won the SB. I don't know if they can get back to that level, but if they play close to that level this team will be hard to beat.

    Special teams is largely made up of backup WRs, LBs, and DBs. We had injuries stacking up last year at WR and DB which forced us to use our depth instead of reserving it for special teams. No team has unlimited depth. Mystery solved.


    Injuries impact every team every year to some level. Overall the depth hasn't been as good the last few years and it was the years previous.

    Not a mystery to me.
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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:26 am
  • I personally do not subscribe to any explanation that requires us to be telepaths and know the minds of the players. Nobody on our defense has lost an edge statistically. Kearse and Lane are really the only notable declines in play.

    You can blame declining cap room due to big players getting paid, but I'm not sure what alternative there is. Releasing good players doesn't make a team better.

    Personally I think we just didn't run with as talented players in 2014 as we did before on ST. And I do think we'll be dramatically better in that area this year.
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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:22 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Personally I think we just didn't run with as talented players in 2014 as we did before on ST. And I do think we'll be dramatically better in that area this year.

    "Dramatically" better has got to be wishful thinking, I'm assuming ?
    We also thought the Oline last year would be better but yanno...
    We've put emphasis on the line to improve but what indications for ST are you seeing for any improvement, let alone "dramatic" :?:
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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:59 am
  • Losing Chris Maragos to FA was a huge hit.
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    onanygivensunday
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Re: Excellent Special Teams article.
Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:02 pm
  • 3 year decline.

    Sounds 'bout right.

    Band-aids and prayers isn't sustainable.

    This season better show some real life or we're in for a major overhaul.

    And you all know I'm never wrong...
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