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USA Today: Hawks OL is a disaster, but Wilson isn't helping

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  • :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot:

    With tape...

    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/09/the-sea ... nt-helping

    On numerous occasions, Wilson bailed from clean pockets or panicked too early and ran into pressure, which has been an issue throughout his career.


    Still think it might be his height that's partially causing him to do this.

    Don't worry, I still think he's an amazing QB and still want him on no team other than the Seahawks.
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    MontanaHawk05
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  • He's giving himself an internal clock to abandon the pocket because he can't trust that there won't be a blocking breakdown on his blindside. Why is he doing that? Because we have one of the most physically overmatched LTs ever.

    Either Russell grows another set of eyes on the back of his head . . . or maybe we address the LT position.
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  • I've said this last year but it wasn't well received by most on this site. Russell has been David Carr'd. That alone is reason enough for a coaching overhaul. I'm afraid this staff has destroyed the potential of best QB in franchise history.
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  • I sure hope the David Carr comparisons don't come true, but he did not have a good game and it's not 100% on the OL.
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  • Mostly fair IMO. Example 2 of leaving early was marginal. As to why he may leave early? His internal clock of 2 seconds before pressure arrives is one big reason. Lines like we are giving him can ruin many QBs.
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  • When Russell was hurt last year and couldn't leave the pocket, there were times when he would literally stare down the left side of the field and not attempt a pass to the right side. So that's a 3rd alternative to growing eyes on the back of his head. Unfortunately, that strategy cuts off half the field and makes the passing game much more predictable.

    Or maybe they could address the LT position!
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  • I agree about his height, I think Cable even said it in an interview way back in the day. When he cant see he's going to move. Wilson needs to learn how to manipulate the pocket like drew brees does
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  • It's a compound problem and Wilson is part of it. That's not news to folks that see rather than believe.

    With RW all we can really ask is better discipline. It's not like he's growing any time soon and he's still in a top 5 conversation. The OL, on the other hand...we should probably make some reasonable changes.
    Last edited by vin.couve12 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • IrishNW wrote:I agree about his height, I think Cable even said it in an interview way back in the day. When he cant see he's going to move. Wilson needs to learn how to manipulate the pocket like drew brees does


    Brees has Sean Payton who uses quick 3 step routes at the beginning to establish rythm. Our playcalling is terrible. We either throw a screen (Our receivers outside of Baldwin can't block). Or we have routes that take 5-7 steps to develop. By that time the pressure is in his face. We need to go from a vertical to a horizontal offense if this OL philosophy is to remain.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:Or maybe they could address the LT position!


    I'm open to suggestions.

    If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:
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  • ludakrishna wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:I agree about his height, I think Cable even said it in an interview way back in the day. When he cant see he's going to move. Wilson needs to learn how to manipulate the pocket like drew brees does


    Brees has Sean Payton who uses quick 3 step routes at the beginning to establish rythm. Our playcalling is terrible. We either throw a screen (Our receivers outside of Baldwin can't block). Or we have routes that take 5-7 steps to develop. By that time the pressure is in his face. We need to go from a vertical to a horizontal offense if this OL philosophy is to remain.


    Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.
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  • I'm sorry but so many of those examples were just bad and creating a narrative. The play is designed to go to a specific person or side of the field. If that guy is covered then the QB has to go to a second read or third read. Just because the guy on the backside of the play comes open, he may be the 4th read. With this OL, no QB is getting to the 4th read (and probably the defense knows this which is why those guys are open). Several times Russell was trying to shift or get himself open to get to that second read and yes, got tackled in the process.

    The problem isn't necessarily Russell but the stupid damn play that everyone knows is coming and so the primary read is double covered and now Russell has to improvise. This all goes away with better gameplans. We've seen it before from Bevell and WIlson. When they get it right they can move the ball as well as anyone. When the gameplan is totally wrong and the OL is overmatched we get last weeks game (or the TB game from last year, or the many Rams games and Cardinals games the last two years).

    Does Russell make errors at times when the play doesn't go as planned? Yes he does. So does every QB including Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady. I don't think it has anything to do with being David Carr'd. It's having to come up with a instantaneous decision in the face of heat when no one else is executing well. Russell is one of only a handful of QB's that can make something out of nothing. Most pocket passers would be sacked relentlessly with our line and be on IR.
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  • IrishNW wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:I agree about his height, I think Cable even said it in an interview way back in the day. When he cant see he's going to move. Wilson needs to learn how to manipulate the pocket like drew brees does


    Brees has Sean Payton who uses quick 3 step routes at the beginning to establish rythm. Our playcalling is terrible. We either throw a screen (Our receivers outside of Baldwin can't block). Or we have routes that take 5-7 steps to develop. By that time the pressure is in his face. We need to go from a vertical to a horizontal offense if this OL philosophy is to remain.


    Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.


    Also subtly slides the pocket a lot.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Or maybe they could address the LT position!


    I'm open to suggestions.

    If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:


    Joe Thomas just had a phenomenal week 1, so I'm not sure why you would be opposed to pursuing him.

    The most obvious solution, at least at the moment, would be to move Joeckel back out to LT. He started at LT for three years in the NFL, and while not "great," he played much better at that position than our current LT.

    If they can get Battle or Pocic up to speed, then maybe move Joeckel back to LG when that is possible.

    There are not many worse alternatives than the status quo. Asking Russell why he is fleeing the pocket unnecessarily at times is kind of like asking a DV victim why they have trust issues.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Or maybe they could address the LT position!


    I'm open to suggestions.

    If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:


    I was against this before, but since Pocic is sitting I would try Joeckel at LT (he clearly is not a top guard as Cable thinks), then bring in Pocic at guard. That would require 1 move to activate Hunt for BU center.

    Joeckel only needs to be better than Obi, and Pocic = to Joeckel for this to help.

    Beyond that?

    Punt.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Or maybe they could address the LT position!


    I'm open to suggestions.

    If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:


    I was against this before, but since Pocic is sitting I would try Joeckel at LT (he clearly is not a top guard as Cable thinks), then bring in Pocic at guard. That would require 1 move to activate Hunt for BU center.

    Joeckel only needs to be better than Obi, and Pocic = to Joeckel for this to help.

    Beyond that?

    Punt.


    Pocic hasn't played on the left side of the line. He did start a year at RG in college and played some RG in the pre-season.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Or maybe they could address the LT position!


    I'm open to suggestions.

    If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:


    I was against this before, but since Pocic is sitting I would try Joeckel at LT (he clearly is not a top guard as Cable thinks), then bring in Pocic at guard. That would require 1 move to activate Hunt for BU center.

    Joeckel only needs to be better than Obi, and Pocic = to Joeckel for this to help.

    Beyond that?

    Punt.


    Pocic hasn't played on the left side of the line. He did start a year at RG in college and played some RG in the pre-season.


    So Glow back to LG and Pocic at RG
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  • IrishNW wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:I agree about his height, I think Cable even said it in an interview way back in the day. When he cant see he's going to move. Wilson needs to learn how to manipulate the pocket like drew brees does


    Brees has Sean Payton who uses quick 3 step routes at the beginning to establish rythm. Our playcalling is terrible. We either throw a screen (Our receivers outside of Baldwin can't block). Or we have routes that take 5-7 steps to develop. By that time the pressure is in his face. We need to go from a vertical to a horizontal offense if this OL philosophy is to remain.


    Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.


    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.
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  • Since the beginning of football, one of the requirements of the QB position has been to hang in the pocket and make tough throws even right down to stepping into your throw knowing you're going to get hit. This is NOT new. Nor is RW's questionable pocket presence.

    This IS a compound problem. Video evidence doesn't lend to denial here.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:I agree about his height, I think Cable even said it in an interview way back in the day. When he cant see he's going to move. Wilson needs to learn how to manipulate the pocket like drew brees does


    Brees has Sean Payton who uses quick 3 step routes at the beginning to establish rythm. Our playcalling is terrible. We either throw a screen (Our receivers outside of Baldwin can't block). Or we have routes that take 5-7 steps to develop. By that time the pressure is in his face. We need to go from a vertical to a horizontal offense if this OL philosophy is to remain.


    Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.


    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:
    Brees has Sean Payton who uses quick 3 step routes at the beginning to establish rythm. Our playcalling is terrible. We either throw a screen (Our receivers outside of Baldwin can't block). Or we have routes that take 5-7 steps to develop. By that time the pressure is in his face. We need to go from a vertical to a horizontal offense if this OL philosophy is to remain.


    Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.


    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.


    yeah cause he had so much success in the NFL with his offense...no thanks
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  • IrishNW wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:
    Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.


    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.


    yeah cause he had so much success in the NFL with his offense...no thanks


    He would need to modulate his tempo to sustain longer drives. But he's still a bonafide offensive genius, IMO. His biggest issues in the NFL were his HC/GM-related responsibilities.

    Compared to Bevell? :yawn:
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  • This article is somewhat fair, but the writer is not offering FULL context.

    You can nitpick at any Qbs bad games. When Brady struggles with his O-line, you could analyze tape and find moments where Brady could have pulled something off. So the translation for this article is, it's partly Russell's fault because he didn't play perfectly under the circumstances

    Qbs stand in the pocket and take hits while gunning it down the barrel all the time. But you can't expect a Qb to do that for EVERY play. The writer basically compliments Wilson on a throw in which he got hammered and couldn't step into it. Sorry, but I'd rather pray for my Qb to healthy & paranoid while the O-line gels than risk it

    The glaring flaw in this article is it basically asks Wilson to be Alex Smith and look for his check down first, rather than go to his first and second read
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Or maybe they could address the LT position!


    I'm open to suggestions.

    If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:


    Joe Thomas just had a phenomenal week 1, so I'm not sure why you would be opposed to pursuing him.


    I'm not opposed to pursuing him. I'm just irked at the pipe dream so many fans have that we can just snap our fingers and get the Browns to go "Oh sure, here's a quality LT, we don't need him, thanks for the crummy player in return" or whatever it is they think we can do. The Browns value a quality LT becase who wouldn't, and that makes him prohibitively expensive for us.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.


    yeah cause he had so much success in the NFL with his offense...no thanks


    He would need to modulate his tempo to sustain longer drives. But he's still a bonafide offensive genius, IMO. His biggest issues in the NFL were his HC/GM-related responsibilities.

    Compared to Bevell? :yawn:


    I'd take a reeled in Kelly over Bevell any day.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.


    yeah cause he had so much success in the NFL with his offense...no thanks


    He would need to modulate his tempo to sustain longer drives. But he's still a bonafide offensive genius, IMO. His biggest issues in the NFL were his HC/GM-related responsibilities.

    Compared to Bevell? :yawn:


    I'd take a reeled in Kelly over Bevell any day.


    Kelly w/ Wilson would be like peanut butter and chocolate
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Or maybe they could address the LT position!


    I'm open to suggestions.

    If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:


    Joe Thomas just had a phenomenal week 1, so I'm not sure why you would be opposed to pursuing him.


    I'm not opposed to pursuing him. I'm just irked at the pipe dream so many fans have that we can just snap our fingers and get the Browns to go "Oh sure, here's a quality LT, we don't need him, thanks for the crummy player in return" or whatever it is they think we can do. The Browns value a quality LT becase who wouldn't, and that makes him prohibitively expensive for us.


    All trades are kind of a pipedream to predict. I agree we would have to give up major assets for Joe Thomas (a couple highly valued starters like TE Jimmy Graham & CB Jeremy Lane would make the numbers work) and maybe draft picks too. But I would try. When there is a will, (sometimes) there is a way. Thomas is getting up there in age, so this could be the Browns last shot to acquire assets for him while he is still good. If the Seahawks can improve the play at LT, I think our QB and defense are good enough to get us back to the Super Bowl.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Or maybe they could address the LT position!


    I'm open to suggestions.

    If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:


    Joe Thomas just had a phenomenal week 1, so I'm not sure why you would be opposed to pursuing him.


    I'm not opposed to pursuing him. I'm just irked at the pipe dream so many fans have that we can just snap our fingers and get the Browns to go "Oh sure, here's a quality LT, we don't need him, thanks for the crummy player in return" or whatever it is they think we can do. The Browns value a quality LT becase who wouldn't, and that makes him prohibitively expensive for us.



    Joe Thomas isn't going anywhere now that the Browns have Deshone Kizer to protect. The LT position does need to be addressed somehow. Odhiambo is the worse. The guy is getting knocked down or pushed over easily on every other play it seems.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:
    Brees has Sean Payton who uses quick 3 step routes at the beginning to establish rythm. Our playcalling is terrible. We either throw a screen (Our receivers outside of Baldwin can't block). Or we have routes that take 5-7 steps to develop. By that time the pressure is in his face. We need to go from a vertical to a horizontal offense if this OL philosophy is to remain.


    Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.


    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.

    Haha! Would be a disaster.
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  • Siouxhawk wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:
    Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.


    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.

    Haha! Would be a disaster.


    If they announced that Chip Kelly was coming to call the plays for the Seahawks, you wouldn't be able to wipe the smile off my face.
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  • Browns aren't going to trade Joe Thomas. He has said many times he wants to retire a Brown and is still one of the best LT's in the NFL. Unless they are thrown a franchise breaking trade of players and future draft picks, no one will be getting him.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.

    Haha! Would be a disaster.


    If they announced that Chip Kelly was coming to call the plays for the Seahawks, you wouldn't be able to wipe the smile off my face.

    Happy for you. Keep dreaming the impossible dream.
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  • Siouxhawk wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:
    Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.


    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.

    Haha! Would be a disaster for me


    FTFY
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.

    Haha! Would be a disaster.


    FTFY

    wanting to fix something that's not broken. Classic.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:All trades are kind of a pipedream to predict. I agree we would have to give up major assets for Joe Thomas (a couple highly valued starters like TE Jimmy Graham & CB Jeremy Lane would make the numbers work)


    On Sunday, part of the problem was that we weren't sending enough targets out there for Wilson to find. We were in max protect for much of the day, and it backfired - our TEs and RBs would chip and then run late routes, and by then Wilson was in trouble.

    Trading Graham would be a new way to create the same problem. Luke Willson and Nick Vannett would not suffice. Wilson would only have fewer weapons in an already shrimpy (all due respect to our perennially pissed-off and clutch WR corps) and injury-prone arsenal. It would probably only lead to more coverage sacks.

    The answer is to dump max protect and send these guys out on routes from the snap. It's an obvious answer because we've run it before and it's worked. The only thing holding us back is the coaches' not doing it.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:All trades are kind of a pipedream to predict. I agree we would have to give up major assets for Joe Thomas (a couple highly valued starters like TE Jimmy Graham & CB Jeremy Lane would make the numbers work)


    On Sunday, part of the problem was that we weren't sending enough targets out there for Wilson to find. We were in max protect for much of the day, and it backfired - our TEs and RBs would chip and then run late routes, and by then Wilson was in trouble.

    Trading Graham would be a new way to create the same problem. Luke Willson and Nick Vannett would not suffice. Wilson would only have fewer weapons in an already shrimpy (all due respect to our perennially pissed-off and clutch WR corps) and injury-prone arsenal. It would probably only lead to more coverage sacks.

    The answer is to dump max protect and send these guys out on routes from the snap. It's an obvious answer because we've run it before and it's worked. The only thing holding us back is the coaches' not doing it.


    Good point. I suggest if we trade Graham & Lane that we get Thomas & Randall Telfer (an excellent blocking TE) in return. But again . . . it's a pipedream. We do need a TE and FB who can block.

    We just need to mix in more running plays and some screens to keep the defense on its heels. Then the max protect plays and play action passing might actually yield something more consistently.
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  • When you have guys chipping then rolling out, by the time Wilson needs to throw due to pressure most of the targets still have their back to him or are covered.

    I still cant figure out why we were doing so much play action when was obvious that the run game was not working. Line up with an empty backfield in shotgun and get some quick hits going.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:All trades are kind of a pipedream to predict. I agree we would have to give up major assets for Joe Thomas (a couple highly valued starters like TE Jimmy Graham & CB Jeremy Lane would make the numbers work)


    On Sunday, part of the problem was that we weren't sending enough targets out there for Wilson to find. We were in max protect for much of the day, and it backfired - our TEs and RBs would chip and then run late routes, and by then Wilson was in trouble.

    Trading Graham would be a new way to create the same problem. Luke Willson and Nick Vannett would not suffice. Wilson would only have fewer weapons in an already shrimpy (all due respect to our perennially pissed-off and clutch WR corps) and injury-prone arsenal. It would probably only lead to more coverage sacks.

    The answer is to dump max protect and send these guys out on routes from the snap. It's an obvious answer because we've run it before and it's worked. The only thing holding us back is the coaches' not doing it.


    Good point. I suggest if we trade Graham & Lane that we get Thomas & Randall Telfer (an excellent blocking TE) in return. But again . . . it's a pipedream. We do need a TE and FB who can block.

    We just need to mix in more running plays and some screens to keep the defense on its heels. Then the max protect plays and play action passing might actually yield something more consistently.


    The screens I agree on, but again, it goes back to the ability of the OL. We've never been a good screen team under Carroll and Cable.

    What I would try (and you suggested this) is try Pocic at LT. He's an anti-Cable pick in that he's polished instead of athletic-and-raw (such an anti-Cable pick, in fact, that I still wonder how much input Cable actually had in his selection), and his performance at LT with the Tigers was underrated.
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:It's a compound problem and Wilson is part of it. That's not news to folks that see rather than believe.

    With RW all we can really ask is better discipline. It's not like he's growing any time soon and he's still in a top 5 conversation. The OL, on the other hand...we should probably make some reasonable changes.


    This is akin to asking a fish in a barrel to hold still while you shoot it. RW's play will improve when he can trust the Oline.
    Russell has some stats that aren't Superb? Ow! Love his balls anyways!

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  • Siouxhawk wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:
    Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.


    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.

    Haha! Would be a disaster.


    It cant get much worse.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.


    Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.

    Haha! Would be a disaster.


    It cant get much worse.

    Because winning 70% of the time is so much worse. Wake up.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:All trades are kind of a pipedream to predict. I agree we would have to give up major assets for Joe Thomas (a couple highly valued starters like TE Jimmy Graham & CB Jeremy Lane would make the numbers work)


    On Sunday, part of the problem was that we weren't sending enough targets out there for Wilson to find. We were in max protect for much of the day, and it backfired - our TEs and RBs would chip and then run late routes, and by then Wilson was in trouble.

    Trading Graham would be a new way to create the same problem. Luke Willson and Nick Vannett would not suffice. Wilson would only have fewer weapons in an already shrimpy (all due respect to our perennially pissed-off and clutch WR corps) and injury-prone arsenal. It would probably only lead to more coverage sacks.

    The answer is to dump max protect and send these guys out on routes from the snap. It's an obvious answer because we've run it before and it's worked. The only thing holding us back is the coaches' not doing it.

    Trading Graham away would avoid the scenario where even when the TE chips there is no time because the TE whiffs.

    I was all aboard max protect. It led to Wilson holding the ball and having to dump it at times, but that was more of a process decision than "crap 2 guys are on me instantly."

    There is no magic way out of terrible OL. Send everyone out on routes and DBs eventually sit on the short stuff and QB dies. Keep everyone in and there are more defenders per receiver and QB throws it away. Add that we suck at running so PA doesn't work as well and there is no chance.

    Brady is the epitome of not needing time and in the first half of the Super Bowl the magic rub routes availed him nothing.
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  • ludakrishna wrote:I've said this last year but it wasn't well received by most on this site. Russell has been David Carr'd. That alone is reason enough for a coaching overhaul. I'm afraid this staff has destroyed the potential of best QB in franchise history.


    You were among too few voices of reason and I commend you for your courage in laying out truth vs blind fan obedience.

    RW is gun-shy at this point. The article makes that clear.

    He also struggles to see the tighter passing lanes from the pocket due to his lack of height. It's getting tougher and tougher for some in here to deny that.

    And now as he slows down a bit - even when healthy, the scramble threat is less as well which in turn is compounded by the Hawks lack of a consistent running game. Hoping Carson can change that but he's up against the same "learning mode" O-Line as Wilson has been dealing with.

    And yes - this goes to the coaching and management.
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  • Bring back the read option with gusto?
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  • Wow. On all those plays, Bevel brings in 6-7 guys to block. You have 2 to 3 guys running long routes that take forever to develop and covered by 6 Packers. How dumb is that! And he's doing this over and over and over again.

    Get ready for the same shiiit game plan this Sunday vs 49ers. Ridicules!
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Or maybe they could address the LT position!


    I'm open to suggestions.

    If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:

    Joe Thomas. :2thumbs:
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  • That's a lot of assumptions about Russ after 1 game.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Or maybe they could address the LT position!


    I'm open to suggestions.

    If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:


    Branden Albert. He retired from the Jags after being traded from the Dolphins to them but was open to coming back before they decided to release him. Thus he may be available. He is a vet who has experience playing LT and is also familiar with ZBS. The Chiefs used ZBS at times in their offense.

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20279436/branden-albert-wants-come-back-retirement-play-jacksonville-jaguars
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  • hawk45 wrote:I was all aboard max protect. It led to Wilson holding the ball and having to dump it at times, but that was more of a process decision than "crap 2 guys are on me instantly."


    Not really. You get Graham and the RB out there instantly and Wilson is getting rid of the ball before the rush can get to him. Peyton Manning made his hay that way for years and folks never figured it out because they're too slaved to blind, simplistic concepts like "10 seconds of protection = only way to win".

    If there's "no magic way out of a terrible OL", then how do you explain his success from the pocket in 2015? It's not like we had a good OL back then.
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