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Why is the pass rush so underwhelming again?

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  • This has been the problem ever since XLIX. Its improved this season and not bad by any means, we are lucky to have such a good front 7. But they are so inconsistent, one game they look on fire, next game they cant get any pressure. What gives?

    You see the Jags D line just feasting on teams and i don think they are that much more talented than our front.

    Clark
    Sheldon
    Bennett
    Reed
    Smith
    Nazir
    Wagner(he can blitz)

    These are talented players why isnt there a consistent suffocating pass rush? Are they just lazy?They are supposed to be harassing QB's.


    Side note: i think mcdowell will be a monster if and when he comes back.
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    RussB
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  • They've been underwhelming in the pass rush for sure. Run defense is suffocating though. Doesn't really help on third and longs though
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  • The real story of the 2017 Seahawks is the lack of a pass rush.
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  • sdog1981 wrote:The real story of the 2017 Seahawks is the lack of a pass rush.


    Well.....you really cannot say that they don't try. It is just that they cannot get to the QB in time!
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  • This is one more example of how this team has underachieved in these last years with tons of talent ...
    And IMHO the responsible for this is an overrated coaching staff. PC in my opinion is an excellent motivator but little more than this. And Bevell gets all the hate but I think KR is also a very mediocre coordinator.
    If I want to look at good coaches (except NE), I loot at what has McVay done with the Rams in one offseason (with more or less the same roster as the last year), Doug Pederson with the Eagles ...
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  • I hate to say it, but I think our lineman are too lean. At times they get engulfed by their opponents. Clark needs an extra 10 lbs.
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  • The DL has been the #1 disappointment on the team. Great against the run, but we need them to be great against the pass as well.
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  • I think Bennet has regressed tremendously this year. We had high expectations from him. Secondly, Clark flashed well at the beginning of the season, but have not noticed him much as of late. So when you have your top two rushers underperforming, things are not going to look good on the field.
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  • northseahawk wrote:I think Bennet has regressed tremendously this year. We had high expectations from him. Secondly, Clark flashed well at the beginning of the season, but have not noticed him much as of late. So when you have your top two rushers underperforming, things are not going to look good on the field.


    I agree with all of this, very disappointing. To be fair Bennett is playing on one leg for the most part. I also think we are missing Avril more than we realize. Not sure where Clark disappeared to, to me he's been the most disappointing?
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  • Part of it has been opponents' game planning. It's hard to get much effective pressure when the universal plan is to get the ball out as quickly as possible. That's been most teams' go-to-strategy against the Hawks' D for a while now.
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  • Bevell gets all the hate, but Richard lacks serious creativity. Everyone knows what the Hawks are going to do in certain situations. That said, Richard does not have the tools Quinn had in 13-14, especially in the secondary. It's often overlooked how many times coverage sacks are created by a dominant secondary. if your secondary can't man up, it's very difficult to create pressure. The Hawks rarely get home, because the ball is gone.
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  • hawker84 wrote: I also think we are missing Avril more than we realize.


    This should have been the first reply.
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  • We've giving up just as many sacks as we've got this year, that almost doesn't seem possible.
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  • adeltaY wrote:The DL has been the #1 disappointment on the team. Great against the run, but we need them to be great against the pass as well.


    Can't have both. And losing Cliff Avril early eliminated one of the best speed rushers in the NFL. Look at the Broncos with Von Miller. Without Demarcus Ware, easily contained and double teamed. Frank Clark isn't a good fit as an edge rusher.
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  • Tbf, Avril wasn't playing well even before he got hurt. Could've turned it around though so you do have a good point.
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  • Problem with the pass rush is that we let teams on 3rd and long hit underneath short routes and run to the first down. We are so conservative about protecting against the deep ball, that everyone is 9 yards off the LOS on 3rd and 7. If we played tighter, forced the QB to either heave it deep or hold onto the ball waiting for someone to get open, our pass rush would get there.

    Pass rush and DB coverage go hand in hand. That is why Jacksonville feasts. Their secondary can cover and they are aggressive. We are far too conservative.
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  • 2013

    QB sacks: 44

    ASPG: 2.75

    2017

    QB sacks: 26

    ASPG: 2.6
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  • Might have a little to do with the defensive scheme. When not executed at a high level, the keep it simple approach keeps it simple for the opposing qb. Could just be Pete handcuffing Richards. This defense, more now than ever, needs to mix things up and get aggressive.
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  • I just am not seeing any play by the front seven that makes me go wow , didn't see that comin.
    I agree totally that we are too vanilla.
    The Washington loss still bugs me .
    Reed being out seemed to make a difference .
    I was stoked about the possibility of the dline being unstoppable in training camp but it has yet to materialize.
    We haven't been the same since we lost Quinn so I get it but can't you look back at the way he did things and try to use that info and style to your advantage ?
    Never been sold on KR.
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  • Team is 9th in sacks.

    A big problem is Hawk fans view of the world gets blurred watching the Hawk Oline. Every team's oline is better than Seattle and it's weird for them to see opposing QBs with nice pockets.

    BTW - Bennett leads team w/ 6.5 sacks (20th in the league) and 8th in league in Tackles for loss with 11, while hurt. He is still the best Dlineman on the team and having a very good year.
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  • cymatica wrote:Might have a little to do with the defensive scheme. When not executed at a high level, the keep it simple approach keeps it simple for the opposing qb. Could just be Pete handcuffing Richards. This defense, more now than ever, needs to mix things up and get aggressive.


    This. The philosophy of going ultra vanilla bean and expecting our players to be more athletic and talented than the opposition is no longer functional. The whole league has immitated, evolved and adapted and Carroll keeps on with his USC schemes.
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  • I think a lot of it goes back to Carroll and what he dictates, more contain and less all out rush, why, Earl was out and we were playing teams that had a semblance of a run game, then we lost Sherm and Kam as well as now Shaq, playing deep zone and not letting the run game beat us is playing percentages. Make they earn every play and make a mistake. Push the pocket but stay in your lane and look for the run first. The issue is we are playing to soft in the secondary and are being picked apart easlily, our zones need to be tightened up by 5 yards at least and make the receivers get open rather then give them openings.

    We rarely blitz, we do it in predictable situations more often then not, when we throw a wild card one in they are very successful and usually create a 3 and out. 3rd down if we gave anymore cushion we would be a couch, we give the down and distance up as far as depth almost every time, all they have to do is catch, most times they don't even have to have any YAC to get the 1st. Again it's tightening it up and make them get open instead of conceding the catch and making a tackle hoping to create a turnover on the tackle.
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  • Smellyman wrote:Team is 9th in sacks.

    A big problem is Hawk fans view of the world gets blurred watching the Hawk Oline. Every team's oline is better than Seattle and it's weird for them to see opposing QBs with nice pockets.

    BTW - Bennett leads team w/ 6.5 sacks (20th in the league) and 8th in league in Tackles for loss with 11, while hurt. He is still the best Dlineman on the team and having a very good year.


    Its not just sacks, it's the lack of consistent pressure. Someone posted the 2013 sack numbers and yeah they weren't amazing, but anyone who watched those games knows that there consistent pressure and collapsing pockets were there.
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  • sdog1981 wrote:The real story of the 2017 Seahawks is the lack of a pass rush.

    Wow
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  • 1. Losing Avril 2. Frank Clark is overrated 3. lack of depth. 4. Our ends are slow and lack explosion - Darryl Tapp syndrome
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  • Scheme, scheme, scheme.

    Every team that plays us says the same thing, "they don't do anything hard on defense."

    Historically, we had the players to leverage that. Thomas, Chancellor, Sherman and company in their prime and healthy, we could afford to not develop game-specific schemes. We don't have the talent to do that now. The "just go out and play" mantra should not apply. We need to reinvigorate the scheme and get way more aggressive.

    Teams know exactly how to attack our zones, as they have had years of trial and error to perfect it. Our system is built on pressure, so if we don't get it... this defense is easy to attack. You do have the QB to do it, like the last two home games we have played (Cousins and Ryan). Rodgers eats this defense alive. Wentz is going to do well against us as well. Brady would beat us sideways right now. Even a QB like Keenum would have success, he is patient and does not make mistakes and is very accurate. If we played the Vikings, I would expect to see 3 out of every 4 third downs converted and it would drive us all nuts.

    We very rarely come up with wrinkles, CB blitzes, or anything out of the ordinary.

    Compounding the problem, especially at home, is the crowd noise is no longer intimidating and teams easily communicate and adjust, whereas they used to struggle just to get the play off and not get a false start.

    All of those factors combined are why we see offenses making plays. Accurate, patient QB + a good pass blocking line...we have no way to stop it.
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  • Grahamhawker wrote:Part of it has been opponents' game planning. It's hard to get much effective pressure when the universal plan is to get the ball out as quickly as possible. That's been most teams' go-to-strategy against the Hawks' D for a while now.


    It's increasingly the norm for offenses across the NFL.

    One of the starkest exceptions is the first-half Seahawks.
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  • FlyingGreg wrote:Scheme, scheme, scheme.

    Every team that plays us says the same thing, "they don't do anything hard on defense."

    Historically, we had the players to leverage that. Thomas, Chancellor, Sherman and company in their prime and healthy, we could afford to not develop game-specific schemes. We don't have the talent to do that now. The "just go out and play" mantra should not apply. We need to reinvigorate the scheme and get way more aggressive.

    Teams know exactly how to attack our zones, as they have had years of trial and error to perfect it. Our system is built on pressure, so if we don't get it... this defense is easy to attack. You do have the QB to do it, like the last two home games we have played (Cousins and Ryan). Rodgers eats this defense alive. Wentz is going to do well against us as well. Brady would beat us sideways right now. Even a QB like Keenum would have success, he is patient and does not make mistakes and is very accurate. If we played the Vikings, I would expect to see 3 out of every 4 third downs converted and it would drive us all nuts.

    We very rarely come up with wrinkles, CB blitzes, or anything out of the ordinary.

    Compounding the problem, especially at home, is the crowd noise is no longer intimidating and teams easily communicate and adjust, whereas they used to struggle just to get the play off and not get a false start.

    All of those factors combined are why we see offenses making plays. Accurate, patient QB + a good pass blocking line...we have no way to stop it.

    Agree they need to start getting more creative on defense. Becoming way too predictable at this point, every team knows its going to be cover 3 or cover 1 and just motion a guy to tell if its man or zone. I dont get why pete is so stubborn and refuses to disquise coverages or switch to more cover 2 at times.They also need to get more creative with the blitzes just rushing 4 isnt really that effective anymore.
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  • Flying greg'
    That post was so spot on it about pissed me off at our team
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  • FlyingGreg wrote:Scheme, scheme, scheme.

    Every team that plays us says the same thing, "they don't do anything hard on defense."

    Historically, we had the players to leverage that. Thomas, Chancellor, Sherman and company in their prime and healthy, we could afford to not develop game-specific schemes. We don't have the talent to do that now. The "just go out and play" mantra should not apply. We need to reinvigorate the scheme and get way more aggressive.

    Teams know exactly how to attack our zones, as they have had years of trial and error to perfect it. Our system is built on pressure, so if we don't get it... this defense is easy to attack. You do have the QB to do it, like the last two home games we have played (Cousins and Ryan). Rodgers eats this defense alive. Wentz is going to do well against us as well. Brady would beat us sideways right now. Even a QB like Keenum would have success, he is patient and does not make mistakes and is very accurate. If we played the Vikings, I would expect to see 3 out of every 4 third downs converted and it would drive us all nuts.

    We very rarely come up with wrinkles, CB blitzes, or anything out of the ordinary.

    Compounding the problem, especially at home, is the crowd noise is no longer intimidating and teams easily communicate and adjust, whereas they used to struggle just to get the play off and not get a false start.

    All of those factors combined are why we see offenses making plays. Accurate, patient QB + a good pass blocking line...we have no way to stop it.


    You articulate my thoughts better than I can. This is why the turnovers are not there anymore as well imho.

    It's also the same gripe I have with our offense, especially the run game. Our run game is so bad because there is almost zero deception. Lacy is bad but he wasn't close to this bad in Greenbay. Opposing defenses know when we are running and where to shoot the gaps just a little too often.

    I don't want Pete gone but I would love to see him do what he does best to fix this situation: think outside the box. He may have gotten too comfortable with our team scheme wise. Sometimes in life we have to get out of our comfort zone and take on the unkown. Sometimes that's the only way to overcome a situation.
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  • Don't need deception if your good enough to dictate things, we are not, Holmgren's Line was and so was his multilayer passing game.
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  • How do we improve our pass rush scheme? I'm genuinely curious. We seem to run stunts very often and they're decent, but not dominate results-wise. We blitz fairly often, but it felt like ATL picked them up or got the ball out just before our guys could get there. What's left? Zone blitzes? They're pretty easy to pick apart if the rush doesn't get there very quickly, especially for experienced QBs.

    It seems like when we blitz and man up, the QBs have just been making these great throws (cousins twice on that game losing drive) or the DBs can't hold up (ATL game). When we blitzed Ryan on that third down and left Lane in single coverage, I immediately thought he would just lob it up to Julio and he did. I know we can't be "Sacksonville" because we're too hurt and old to stack up to those guys, but there has to be a way to improve.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:Team is 9th in sacks.

    A big problem is Hawk fans view of the world gets blurred watching the Hawk Oline. Every team's oline is better than Seattle and it's weird for them to see opposing QBs with nice pockets.

    BTW - Bennett leads team w/ 6.5 sacks (20th in the league) and 8th in league in Tackles for loss with 11, while hurt. He is still the best Dlineman on the team and having a very good year.


    Its not just sacks, it's the lack of consistent pressure. Someone posted the 2013 sack numbers and yeah they weren't amazing, but anyone who watched those games knows that there consistent pressure and collapsing pockets were there.


    I think it's this. Consistent pass pressure has not been there. How many times does the other team have 3rd and 12 and the QB sits back there and throws the 13 yard curl. ALL DAY LONG.
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  • Something I've notice too is that our D-line is getting held every play and the refs are not calling any of it. I think that the ref is too busy to be looking to call something on our defense rather than other teams, it's been this ways for years now.
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  • Look at who they practice against, bet they get a lot of sacks in practice probably everyone of them look like hall of famer.
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  • hawker84 wrote:
    northseahawk wrote:I think Bennet has regressed tremendously this year. We had high expectations from him. Secondly, Clark flashed well at the beginning of the season, but have not noticed him much as of late. So when you have your top two rushers underperforming, things are not going to look good on the field.


    I agree with all of this, very disappointing. To be fair Bennett is playing on one leg for the most part. I also think we are missing Avril more than we realize. Not sure where Clark disappeared to, to me he's been the most disappointing?


    THIS. Avril is/was a beast. Huge loss. Have watched him up close a lot @ TC. Guy is so fast for someone that big.
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  • DL is fine. Strictly 4 man rush. They are playing the scheme. I don't think PC is disappointed.
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